Koyo Kouoh I am very excited about our project; really extremely excited, because it will give us at the museum the chance to really engage with the history of South Africa through you, and make it very palpable through your experience. I visited the Constitutional Court in Joburg many, many years ago, before I moved to South Africa, and I was already then impressed by the collection. I didn't know that it was put together by one of the sitting judges, and it's only later, when I met you, that I understood how instrumental you've been. And the part of you that I'm really very, very impressed by is your knowledge. Not just love – real love for art, for sure – but really your knowledge of art. The way you speak about art, and the way I've heard you speak about art over the past five years. Sometimes I'm in such awe that I sometimes imagine we should have Albie as a guest curator at the museum one day. The collection that you put together at the Constitutional Court, is extraordinary. So extraordinary that I think even some of the savviest contemporary art curators wouldn't have made the kind of associations that you made. And knowing that more than half of the works, maybe the totality of the works, were special commissions. In curatorial practice, commissioning is one of the most difficult parts of curating, because you don't know what you will get. Basically, you put in a commission, you develop an idea with an artist, but it's a new work. And with a new work, there are always risks that it's good or bad. So, in that part, in itself, beyond that...

Albie Sachs ... I can tell you we had competitions for certain sites, and a small committee to decide, and the rest, it was what we could get. I say it's a collection that collected itself because we didn't have any funding and I think if you've got funding, there's usually a chief person who decides, and it's his or her – usually his art – that comes there. When you've got no funding, you take what you can get, and it's got a serendipitous quality. And we took what we could get, and sometimes with a nudge and a push...

Koyo Kouoh ... But funny enough, I mean, it's interesting that you said that, but it doesn't feel like that. You know, those collections that are put together in kind of a haphazard way, [where] you take what you can get, you kind of feel it as a professional, and I didn't feel like the collection of the Constitutional Court was kind of put together in terms of 'what we could get.' I think that the artists who are represented, or those that you approached, were very conscious about the importance of the site, and that they wanted to contribute, you know ...

Albie Sachs ... Okay, in fact, you spoke about a symphony, and I've got two movements, and the one movement is Mozambique and it's revolution – love, war, death, those themes come into it with a very strong visual and also an audio element; and another pavilion, or section, or whatever it is, would be Constitution Hill; and there's a lot of history in both. And then there is a certain personal narrative that is, in some ways, the story of Albie, the story of South Africa, and the story of Modern Art, and how they became intertwined in different ways. So, I'm thrilled to bits that there's going to be a space in that extraordinary building. I'm thrilled to bits that your organising mind, and your palpitating heart, are going to be in charge of it. And I will feed stuff in, I'll be very excited, but I am expecting you to say, 'Okay, Albie, thanks. Now...' Do you know the word voetsak? You know from being in Cape Town long enough... 'Now, voetsak, leave it to us to make the make the exhibition.'

Koyo Kouoh Yes, that will happen.